Kilkenny Recipe

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Kilkenny Recipe

Postby Hunty » 24 Nov 2006, 10:53

Was at Harry's yesterday searching for a place that showed the Ashes (aww forget it, sorry guys) and tasted a Kilkenny on tap there. Damn good.

Now I have got me a Wyeast Irish Ale 1084 Smack pack and want to know where to go from there for a Kilkenny clone.

JM am sure you can put me on the right road... :) but I think this one has been discussed before which I am sure will do fine:

http://www.beersmith.com/Recipes/Jul%20 ... ipes_6.htm

suggestions welcome

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Postby keat » 24 Nov 2006, 14:50

Hunty, Kilkenny in a can has the NO2 widget, same as the Guiness Draft ones. Are they serving Kilkenny with NO2 on tap as well? It's unmistakable, creamy frothy head and a flat beer.
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flat with a creamy head

Postby Hunty » 24 Nov 2006, 19:41

yes u are correct... but this stuff is draft. I did not ask the bartender how it was being delivered (CO2 or N2) but it tasted pretty good...

on tap at Harry's, Robinson Rd.

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flat with a creamy head

Postby spud » 26 Nov 2006, 08:27

Yep they have a mixing chamber before the gas inters the keg so i'm told but i dont believe it. the mixture is something like 70/30% so how the hell can U premix from two bottles I dont know.. Told that the Beer doesnt absorb N2 easily.
Kilkenny is heavens drink as U know, velvet on the tongue and smootyh taste not dry ad Ginness.
Have the N2 reg & tap all ready waiting for brew myself. Have heard U can do a partial carbonation with C02 then finishs with N2 as the driver.. Told thst here wont premix gasses for U but everywhere else they do,, Called "Beer Mix" in States..Can taste it now.. ummm. :wink:
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Brewing, well awaiting to be - Newcastle Nut, American Pale
Keg - Scottish 80/-, Eda's Milk Stout
Next in line - Choc /Hazelnut Porter, Dry Knickers Stout then, Classic American Pils, Kolsch.
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beer mix

Postby Hunty » 26 Nov 2006, 09:47

u have an N2 bottle spud ?

reckon all u have to do is lightly carbonate with CO2, then deliver at a moderately hight pressure (15 -18 psi) with N2 to achieve that creamy consistency.

you are dead right, N2 is hardly soluble in beer compared to CO2...

I may have to invest in N2 bomb...

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beer mix

Postby spud » 27 Nov 2006, 12:05

N2
Mate U have to have seperate different Reg as well.
Sorted mine all out when I first went for Kegs,, havent used the suckers yet though,,,, coming yea like Xmas..
cheers spud
Brewing, well awaiting to be - Newcastle Nut, American Pale
Keg - Scottish 80/-, Eda's Milk Stout
Next in line - Choc /Hazelnut Porter, Dry Knickers Stout then, Classic American Pils, Kolsch.
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Re: flat with a creamy head

Postby keat » 27 Nov 2006, 13:55

spud wrote:Yep they have a mixing chamber before the gas inters the keg so i'm told but i dont believe it. the mixture is something like 70/30% so how the hell can U premix from two bottles I dont know.. Told that the Beer doesnt absorb N2 easily.
Kilkenny is heavens drink as U know, velvet on the tongue and smootyh taste not dry ad Ginness.
Have the N2 reg & tap all ready waiting for brew myself. Have heard U can do a partial carbonation with C02 then finishs with N2 as the driver.. Told thst here wont premix gasses for U but everywhere else they do,, Called "Beer Mix" in States..Can taste it now.. ummm. :wink:
spud


Spud, I think you're referring to "Beer Gas" http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=48144.
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Kilkenny ale

Postby The Monk » 28 Nov 2006, 11:20

Made a batch of this a few weeks b4 9/11, was way underwhelmed, thought it a bland, ordinary beer!

That beersmith recipe seems wrong to me

In "Brew Classic European Beers at Home" OG is given as 1048, IBUs at about 33, with Challenger and Northdown for bittering, Fuggles for flavor/aroma.

No harm addign some flaked barley, will improve head retention.

But 15IBU???????

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Kilkenny ale

Postby spud » 28 Nov 2006, 19:53

Keat U are probably right,, long time since I read that..
But great idea, tried to get someone here to mix and match but all fell on blocked ears...
So I will C02 at low pressure then just drive it withh N2,, will have to play with it but hey I'll be in heaven what ever the result..
Have seen swillions of recipes out there and all profess to be the best so with time Hunty U will have your favorite & we will have ours, but there is a huge differenc between Irish Dry as a quaffer and the more stout stouts if U know what I mean & "Kill me a drop Kenny" is a quaffer and I bloody love it..
Monk we have had Hunty telling us for years that he is a Lager man, a lightie from way back,, so now whats the story Mate,, making a stout style,, gezz I never thought we would have the priviledge,, but then we have havent we, your Scottie is or was pretty darn good.
cheers spud
Brewing, well awaiting to be - Newcastle Nut, American Pale
Keg - Scottish 80/-, Eda's Milk Stout
Next in line - Choc /Hazelnut Porter, Dry Knickers Stout then, Classic American Pils, Kolsch.
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Celli tap

Postby keat » 28 Nov 2006, 22:39

slightly off-topic, but have you guys seen the new Celli taps from Craftbrewer? that's something to wish for Xmas. It has a flow controller, pull forward for dispensing, push back for foaming. That could be your answer for a low carbonated beer with a foamy head :)
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Postby southernoise » 03 Apr 2007, 00:18

well as for the 30/70 mix... yes these commercial guys do buy em blended in cylinders.

don't ask me how I know. :wink:
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Kilkenny Ale Carbonation + Delivery

Postby spud » 03 Jun 2007, 12:16

southernoise
Ok we havent asked U but can U now let the little secret out
can PM me if U like, only in town till 2morrow evening so maybe wont get to ans U, but am really really interested believe me.
Cheers spud
Brewing, well awaiting to be - Newcastle Nut, American Pale
Keg - Scottish 80/-, Eda's Milk Stout
Next in line - Choc /Hazelnut Porter, Dry Knickers Stout then, Classic American Pils, Kolsch.
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Re: Kilkenny Recipe

Postby puakz and phu » 14 Nov 2008, 02:19

Phu and I just started learning about brewing since the iBrew ECP Day and the first thing we wanted to make was a version of kilkennys/smithwicks. :D (chiong months of mugging howtobrew.com and tips from forums.) did a full mash (omg newbie fullmash=disaster :mrgreen: ) but turned out alright (we wore n95 face masks and surgical gloves throughout and spammed starsan). Agree that the below recipe looks too bland, irish red calls for ard ~25++ IBU... So we just went ahead to tweak it till we thought it should be right. water profile we used something very close to evian (almost dublin water) to balance out the chocolate malt acid. SRM is virtually identical to kilkennys, we ingested the last runnings during bottling and thought it was surprisingly good uncarbonated (but newbies ma so anything that doesnt kill is good) but kena massive shiok diarrhoea cos the last runnings got heck lots of yeast clumps... We used EKG Fuggles and FWH/DH Czech Saaz, with northern brewer for bittering. :wink: the rest which wasnt FWH or DH were placed like in the last 10-15 mins. (think the saaz probably turned the clone wannabe slightly into something else). abt 28 IBU. 3 weeks of primary/secondary at 20 deg constant in home made cooler. Got the Wyeast Irish 1084 ale smack pack but I think i smacked too hard and too many times then raymond said we probably committed microbiological genocide right there and then, then just used dry ale yeast. Also read much abt the need to nitro these kinda beers and abt nitroing (wow the blender is gay). but maybe will try that when we get a TAD sometime later... at the moment tried to fight the potentially dead head with heading powder, slight addition of wheat malt and not doing a totally clear wort run (apparently the lipids from the cloudy initials help head). just bottled last week, 30 painful bottles and now designing the labels haha... Used promash so if anyone is interested we'll be happy to share the Kilfrankenny... next up coming cherry ale. anyone has TAD to sell? =) we're only barely 20 and out of NS and cant afford brand new... been wondering if 5L keg might be ok also since there's soonann sellin 2nd hand now.. advice please...?
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Re: Kilkenny Recipe

Postby Hunty » 14 Nov 2008, 08:21

G'day p&p, we are all pleased to make your aquaintance, welcome to the forum.

Well I sifted through the jive and pretty much figured most of it out :D (I think)

So you skipped the walking stage and started running from scratch... awesome. Please tell us a bit more about your equipment and your process ... you must have had to have made a substantial investment straight off in mash tuns, boilers, copper coils, pumps, tubes, fermenter coolers etc... ?

On this brew specifically, not entirely sure why you pitched a dry yeast and not the wyeast pack, u saying it didnt swell ? Also if you did an all grain brew, no need for heading powder in my experience.... ;)

If you skipped kits and partials and went straight for AG, why bother with TAD's.. go for the real thing and you won't regret the expense... TAD's are ok, but I found them a real b*tch to store and they dont hold enough volume for my liking, one batch for one keg is what you want to do if you can.
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Re: Kilkenny Recipe

Postby puakz and phu » 16 Nov 2008, 02:12

Hello!

wow the forum's alive!!! :D

I wish i could show you smore pictures we took during the process but this is roughly how it goes...

MASH TUN/LAUTER
was a $60 colemans cooler, about 40-50L size i think. there was an existing outlet at the bottom but we borrowed a hand drill and drilled it out to attach a spigot we got from hardware stores ard eunos. waterproofed using hi temp black acetate silicon. the spigot outside fit the food grade pipe same in size as tt which comes with the siphon, on the inside to the lauter manifold. on the inside we got slotted pvc piping, home-cut and sanded smooth and this alone took one full day. (yes pvc might leach but well we dont have too much $$). the piping we got and the joints didnt allow for a proper 3 row-manifold (but then hydrologically speaking according to the entire chapter on building a good tun by john palmer we needed one, so we improvised and the entire manifold looks like this: Image
promise more pics up when i can cos now the equipments all soaking for tomorrow's brew- cherry ale!

Think that the efficiency shd be quite alright because after the lautering the grainbed was really flat smooth... we took about 3l to clear the runnings (the first recipe had wheat in it). As usual the cooler box doubled up as the mash box so we did 40-60-70 deg C rests to 74 deg mashout using promash to tell us how much water to add. Tedious step and i think we might wanna build a proper inner sprinkling system soon.ImageImage



BOILER
was a $50, 35-40L capacity stainless steel hulk we got from kampong glam, together with a 3-ring gas burner, burner stand, heat shield etc. the boil was very vigorous and it took all the hop bags to shreds; next time we're using the spice wire mesh balls to hold the hops so it wont make a great mess...

COPPER IMMERSION COOLING COIL
was a ~$24, 20m coil bought from some air con and fridge servicing centre from Eunos, and painstakenly bent into shape using pots and mugs. the coil just nicely interfaced with some 50m long clear piping we bought cheaply at a store nearby to run the water. interface with the common tap was a plumbing task my partner specialised in (he managed to double up the gas pipe as a water pipe) and the thing was very waterproof, no tape, no clamps, it just fitted perfectly. After some discussion at another thread abt copper poisoning we might reconsider this immersion cooler....
Image
SIPHON
was bought from raymond, along with hydrometer, better bottle carboy, starsan, brushes, bench capper etc etc.

TRANSFER BUCKET WITH SPIGOT
is triple purpose... once for racking from boiler after centrifuging to centrifuge out the before it goes like teh tarik into carboy, and another to mix in dextrose and heading powder during bottling. Its basically an ordinary plastic pail which we drilled a one inch hole in and put a spigot bought from raymond then waterproofed with acetate silicon. Thirdly served as oImageur sanatizing pail for the entire boil-rack/bottling operations. Image

COOLER
is the most work we put on. we were on real budget (1x NSF CPL and 1x NSF LTA with 1 month of NS left. now ORD lo) and wanted the DIY feel (and also to accomodate 2 carboys/4 beer crates for lagering if need arises) as well as solid temp control, so we DIY the whole thing... basically it is a box with removable top, and the top contained all the cooling elements and control etc. 2inch expanded polysterene was used all around, hot glue, weather strips and acetate silicon sealed the sides, and dimensions are slightly larger than the authentic ibrew version (all our edges look crappy cos all penknife) and we destroyed 2 mini fridges. Removed their inbuilt heat exchange biscuits (abt 1.5 by 1.5 inch biscuit) as well as the attached heat sinks, transformers and fans, so basically took out the back part of the fridges. ImageThen we went to sim lim tower and got a silicon wafer (switch, temp monitor and relay chip)with a small screen and a few buttons plus a thermistor and an empty 'mains electrical box.' In the entire circuit the silicon wafer sits in the electrical box powered by a transformer. The two 12V fridges circuits to the box were controlled by the relay switch; hence if the temp goes too high by 0.1 deg the fridges switch on; too low by 0.1 deg it switches off. ImageFor internal air circulation for a faster cool and a more accurate interal temp reading we took apart an old computer pentium II cooler and bought another CPU fan and heat vent assembly from simlim. cut square holes and mounted both on the underside, connected thermal components with huge amounts of thermal paste, and then connected the I/O of the extra fans on the underside to the 12V transformers powering the biscuits themselves. ImageThe control unit silicon wafer had its thermistor extended through the polysterene to reach into the box and voila- A cooler that holds 2 carboys and their blowoff tubes/containers, or 4 stacked beer crates, max/min temperature control, independant coolers heat up/cooling options, redundancy and everything is quite neat and looks quite sleek cos we just screwed the back of the fridges into the board as well and out of the monster one 3 pin wire emerges. ImageBy far our most tedious achievement but its really something when u flip the switch, set the temp, flip both coolers to 'cool' and all 4 fans top and bottom start spinning coolness=) so far 20 deg C achieved in 20 mins from room temp, and the highest temp we achieved in the 3 week fermentation was 23 deg when one of the coolers internal portions dislodged- just fixed that and improved the whole system yesterday... so hopefully it can give us a consistent 18.6 deg for the cherry ale.

BOTTLING
we got about 60 amber bottles from the glass shop near chinatown, and bought 4 2nd hand tiger beer crates to hold the bottles. Initially used bleach solution to scrub out the bottles, rinsed with boiled water thrice to get rid of all the chlorine, then bottled after addition of dextrose solution... Bottling is great fun, drank the last runnings of the bottling with yeast clumps and got diarrhoea.


Everything cost about $800 cos of the DIY-ness in it all... Doubt that the cooler can make it past 15 deg, but in future when we really want to lager we might build the same system but this time with an actual compressor system on top...

AS for the wyeast pack it didnt swell because i think i smacked it too hard and too many times and the yeast probably all died (or raymond said, refused to work.) when we realised it wasnt working it was already close to 24 hours and in such an emergency there wasn't another wyeast irish ale that raymond could provide, so we just got a dry pack one instead which we made a starter for, dumped it in.. nofroth at all and we were wondering if we accidentally dropped a large amount of star san in to make it really inhabitable, but then after taking a whiff of the wort after a week it was definitely definitely becoming a beer=)
Image
Yesterday we just opened the first 2 bottles of our irish red ale wannabe next to an actual kilkennys at Loof and tasted it. Shared with some strangers too. Mixed reactions. Some pointed out correctly that the kilkennys hops was way smoother, ours didnt achieve that kind of smooth pick up and finish. Our aroma and flavour was really amazing and powerful though(i think we overdid the fwh part, and promash IBU calculation on FWH is a bit weird?) Some dude drank a glass of our beer, then ordered a normal asahi, said asahi is comparatively weaker (he used the s word i think?), and then wanted to order another glass of ours. he got pretty shocked (and amazed?) when he learnt it was home made. Will ageing the beer a bit more work?(its only 1 week since dextrose carbonation). One major problem. our beer had, sadly, zero head. Please help me out on this one- the few factors i could think of is firstly cos of the beer nature- we dublinated the water to high CaCO3 (300++ ppm) and extreme hardness killed any chance of a head. Or secondly- noticed that all beers using dublin water- guinness, smithwicks- all had nitro drafts or widgets. This is one of the main reasons why we think the next time we do this we need kegging and start learning from u guys abt nitroing (if i tio 4d i will buy the blender.) Any help on this? I used heading powder but like no effect at all. Maybe the water is just too hard. Anyway we're looking at TADs cos, like I said we're super on budget. Got $$$ no problem, straightaway buy a chest fridge and we'll DIY something out of it...

Other than that we're realll happy with the first attempt that amazingly did better than expected!!! the aroma is really kilkenny amplified, though the flavour transitions are too hardsh, hopefully ageing settles that. Its quite bitter, the other guy phu said it reminds him of a Brewerkz IPA. Will always remember the night when most of the supplies came and Gary delivered them- we said we're gonna full mash and he got shocked haha. So much said and done we're still darn far from melanoidins and stuff tt the pros worry about(oh gosh after reading that i think we should have tried something longer than a 40min boil and removed the northern brewer for bittering)- right now thinking of how to lager the current carbonated irish red 30++bottles at 11deg to smooth out the flavour while the new brew is going on.

Gonna keep to tradition. Its the brewing part thats fun. So the upcoming cherry ale is going to be fullmashed! Thanks for reading=) :lol: P.S. I'm without specs. He's Phu.
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